Well, Rachel is just like any other DOA character now, and the faults of DOA now makes it so brain-dead players can use their regular brain-dead tactics against her.
Of course, everyone complained about something that made you have to play just a LITTLE more careful, yet no one complains about the real problems of DOA because those problems provide a nice little crutch for the bad players. DOA players will make the argument that, "A move whiffing on someone's wakeup shouldn't grant them advantage. It's not normal!" WELCOME TO DOA! A lot of things in this game isn't "normal" and shouldn't work, but it does... The science of how this works in other fighting games can be explained, but DOA players wouldn't really get it and just try and argue it. People only cry for nerfs and change when it's convenient for themselves... when it's something THEMSELVES are too dumb to figure out how to beat... I had strats against Rachel that most of the players couldn't even think of, I knew how to beat Rachel. They were simple, yet effective strats, but I knew the DOA players would just argue them down. So I only shared it with the people that ultimately changes the game, because I know the bigger picture.
The bridge between a top player and a trash player is the shortest I have ever seen in any fighting game. Even though I felt that DOA5U was, yet another, step backwards in the franchise, it still provided a little something for everyone. For the people that wanted to take away a broken DOA mechanic and have frame advantage, Rachel was for that type of player. Every other goofy aspect of the game, every other character was for that type of player. Now Rachel is just like everybody else. Unless you are a Counter Monster, who is really going to use Rachel now? LBSH...
Why does Team Ninja even listen to these type of players? Why do these players put Team Ninja in a tough situation where they eventually will have to surrender to their demands? Lets talk about facts and truths for a second. Most fighting game players HATE DOA. Nobody shows up to DOA tournaments, unless there is a pot bonus. SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA TOURNAMENTS ALMOST GETS AS MUCH ENTRANTS AS A DOA MAJOR! So what makes it so these players are actually allowed to give their opinion on a game that is going to eventually change the game for the worse? They don't know what they're talking about, we can look at the stats on how many people play and how many people consistently show up to tournaments. You can't argue that.
The truth is, regardless if Rachel stayed the same or not, DOA players would still play DOA. DOA players have nothing else going for them when it comes to fighting games. They can't play anything else, so they're not going anywhere. DOA provides a Safe Haven for those type of players who have no fighting game fundamentals and allows them to be King of the Trash Pile. Who wants to compete in a fighting game where the Bottom of the Barrel fighting game players can talk down on you and be able to beat a superior fighting game player?
So once there is something new and different from the "standard" DOA, something that makes it so you just can't wild out completely, they use all their energy and resources to get it removed. Congratulations, you have all collectively killed off Team Ninja's new character Rachel. (Which I'm pretty sure they don't appreciate in the slightest) Have fun at your 20 Man Extravaganzas.
[On a side note, I would still be able to beat 98% of the players with my TWO ACTUAL main characters. So this post wasn't made because I feel that I would start losing now. Just thought I'd point this out before people make any offhanded remarks.]
Showing posts with label patch. Show all posts
Showing posts with label patch. Show all posts
Wednesday, October 16, 2013
Thursday, September 12, 2013
State of the DOA Address: The Rachel Report
I want to address the Rachel problem before Team Ninja makes the irrational decision of nerfing her. This is going to be different from my usual Helena posts, but this really needs to be addressed.
After playing DOA5U for over a week, using Rachel, and having some of the most illogical conversions about the game with other DOA players, I have come to a couple of conclusions. First, DOA players have no idea how to explain their own game and lack basic fighting game knowledge. Second, most DOA players just want to mash buttons all day on wake up. The hot topic lately is everyone complaining about how Rachel can force tech opponents, getting rid of wake up kicks, doing too much damage, she's broken, etc. You DOA players have no idea what a "Broken" character is. DOA players usually only play DOA. They don't know the struggle of Vergil and Dark Phoenix, (UMvC3) Viola and Hilde, (Soul Calibur) or Superman. (Injustice) Just to name a few.
The issue here with Rachel is that she has a force tech stomp you use to end all your juggles. If it hits, it leaves Rachel at +15. If it whiffs, you still can't hit a button against Rachel when you are getting up. I've had people complain to me saying such nonsense like, "I just want to be able to get up off the ground" and "IF THE STOMP WHIFFS, BOTH SHOULD BE AT NEUTRAL..." Are you kidding me? This just goes to show you that when DOA players complain about something and the end game being that Team Ninja nerfs them, they really have no idea about fighting games. When you knock someone down in a 3D fighting game, the attacker can run up on you and continue pressure while you are getting up. I don't know why most players are looking into frame advantage if the stomp whiffs, but this is basic 3D fighting game protocol. When are both players ever at neutral on wake up? How would that even work? In Virtua Fighter, you do also have wake up kicks in that game, BUT when they hit, the one who used the wake up kick is at negative frames on hit.
I've even had someone play the most busted game of Theory Fighter with me that made little to no sense. What DOA players need to understand about their own game is that when you get force teched, you are in a mixup. When you get thrown by a throw that causes a stun of sorts, you are in a mixup. WHEN YOU GET STUNNED, YOU ARE IN A MIXUP! All these things are the same exact concept of what DOA is truly about. It's the Rock Paper Scissors System. How is that any different then when Rachel techs you up? IT'S A GUESS. THAT IS WHAT THE GAME IS. I've pretty much tried explaining how Rachel's Blender worked to another DOA player and what you HAVE to do against it, and to cut this part short, I'm going to explain this in Laymen's Terms:
ME: "If you think I'm going to throw out Rock, then throw out Paper."
THEM: "But then you can throw out Scissors."
ME: "Ok... then if you think that, then throw out Rock."
THEM: "That doesn't work because then you can throw out Paper."
ME: "OOOOK.... THEN THROW OUT SCISSORS IF YOU THINK THAT."
THEM: "That doesn't work because then you can throw out rock."
ME: "...."
DOA is a game heavily based on guessing. YOU HAVE TO GUESS. PERIOD. So why are people complaining about a character that uses this basic idea? One of the main problems is that they complain about throws being too fast and unbreakable, which is the only logical point I can think of from them. This is not Rachel's fault, THIS IS THE GAME ITSELF'S FAULT. If anything, Rachel just points out the issues with DOA's system. Instead of nerfing Rachel, buff the game. Make throws slower, make ducking faster, and make throws breakable. Only make throws unbreakable when it comes to Throw Punishment. If you block an attack that is -5 or higher, then the throw should be unbreakble. (It's the same concept as if you throw an unsafe attack in Street Fighter 4)
CONCLUSION:
Instead of nerfing Rachel, give other characters this same tool she has. Maybe make this the Gold Standard of how DOA should be played. Rachel makes the game honest and punishes players for just mashing buttons on wake up, mashing buttons on disadvantage, and having poor decision making skills. Better yet, other characters don't even need this tool, just take out wake up kicks. They genuinely just slow down the pace of the game anyway, right? I witnessed a man get top 8 at a major tournament from just mashing buttons on wake up, with no fear or consequences. This is not appealing to the competitive fighting game scene. (Hence why tournaments have low numbers and people only showing up when large amounts of money is on the line) With Rachel, she MAKES DOA5U. She takes away this bad aspect of the game, and is why DOA players complain about Rachel because, in conclusion, they just want to be able to press buttons all day... I could share some insight on how to deal with Rachel, because quite a decent amount of people I play with know how, but I have Rachel friends that are going to TFC this weekend and I want to see them Train Wreck everyone.
After playing DOA5U for over a week, using Rachel, and having some of the most illogical conversions about the game with other DOA players, I have come to a couple of conclusions. First, DOA players have no idea how to explain their own game and lack basic fighting game knowledge. Second, most DOA players just want to mash buttons all day on wake up. The hot topic lately is everyone complaining about how Rachel can force tech opponents, getting rid of wake up kicks, doing too much damage, she's broken, etc. You DOA players have no idea what a "Broken" character is. DOA players usually only play DOA. They don't know the struggle of Vergil and Dark Phoenix, (UMvC3) Viola and Hilde, (Soul Calibur) or Superman. (Injustice) Just to name a few.
The issue here with Rachel is that she has a force tech stomp you use to end all your juggles. If it hits, it leaves Rachel at +15. If it whiffs, you still can't hit a button against Rachel when you are getting up. I've had people complain to me saying such nonsense like, "I just want to be able to get up off the ground" and "IF THE STOMP WHIFFS, BOTH SHOULD BE AT NEUTRAL..." Are you kidding me? This just goes to show you that when DOA players complain about something and the end game being that Team Ninja nerfs them, they really have no idea about fighting games. When you knock someone down in a 3D fighting game, the attacker can run up on you and continue pressure while you are getting up. I don't know why most players are looking into frame advantage if the stomp whiffs, but this is basic 3D fighting game protocol. When are both players ever at neutral on wake up? How would that even work? In Virtua Fighter, you do also have wake up kicks in that game, BUT when they hit, the one who used the wake up kick is at negative frames on hit.
I've even had someone play the most busted game of Theory Fighter with me that made little to no sense. What DOA players need to understand about their own game is that when you get force teched, you are in a mixup. When you get thrown by a throw that causes a stun of sorts, you are in a mixup. WHEN YOU GET STUNNED, YOU ARE IN A MIXUP! All these things are the same exact concept of what DOA is truly about. It's the Rock Paper Scissors System. How is that any different then when Rachel techs you up? IT'S A GUESS. THAT IS WHAT THE GAME IS. I've pretty much tried explaining how Rachel's Blender worked to another DOA player and what you HAVE to do against it, and to cut this part short, I'm going to explain this in Laymen's Terms:
ME: "If you think I'm going to throw out Rock, then throw out Paper."
THEM: "But then you can throw out Scissors."
ME: "Ok... then if you think that, then throw out Rock."
THEM: "That doesn't work because then you can throw out Paper."
ME: "OOOOK.... THEN THROW OUT SCISSORS IF YOU THINK THAT."
THEM: "That doesn't work because then you can throw out rock."
ME: "...."
DOA is a game heavily based on guessing. YOU HAVE TO GUESS. PERIOD. So why are people complaining about a character that uses this basic idea? One of the main problems is that they complain about throws being too fast and unbreakable, which is the only logical point I can think of from them. This is not Rachel's fault, THIS IS THE GAME ITSELF'S FAULT. If anything, Rachel just points out the issues with DOA's system. Instead of nerfing Rachel, buff the game. Make throws slower, make ducking faster, and make throws breakable. Only make throws unbreakable when it comes to Throw Punishment. If you block an attack that is -5 or higher, then the throw should be unbreakble. (It's the same concept as if you throw an unsafe attack in Street Fighter 4)
CONCLUSION:
Instead of nerfing Rachel, give other characters this same tool she has. Maybe make this the Gold Standard of how DOA should be played. Rachel makes the game honest and punishes players for just mashing buttons on wake up, mashing buttons on disadvantage, and having poor decision making skills. Better yet, other characters don't even need this tool, just take out wake up kicks. They genuinely just slow down the pace of the game anyway, right? I witnessed a man get top 8 at a major tournament from just mashing buttons on wake up, with no fear or consequences. This is not appealing to the competitive fighting game scene. (Hence why tournaments have low numbers and people only showing up when large amounts of money is on the line) With Rachel, she MAKES DOA5U. She takes away this bad aspect of the game, and is why DOA players complain about Rachel because, in conclusion, they just want to be able to press buttons all day... I could share some insight on how to deal with Rachel, because quite a decent amount of people I play with know how, but I have Rachel friends that are going to TFC this weekend and I want to see them Train Wreck everyone.
Sunday, October 7, 2012
DOA5 Helena Patch Wish List
Dear Team Ninja, (PLEASE READ)
There was once a time where I felt that Helena was the perfect fighting game character. She embodied all of the tools to make her a serious and respectable character in DOA4. In DOA5, all that changed... The fighting system has changed in DOA5 to where we now have unholdable stuns, pretty good frame advantage on block, etc. As the game changed, Helena did not. DOA5 Helena plays a lot like DOA4 Helena. The best way I can describe her now is if DOA4 ever came out with a patch and they nerfed her by making her unsafe and taking away her force techs, this would be that character. The problem is that this isn't DOA4 and this is a new system. She plays EXACTLY like a DOA4 character. She has to be the only character in DOA5 that got worse since DOA4 while every other character got either a little better or a lot better.
I wanted my next blog post to be a breakdown of Helena's best moves, but I felt that this could not wait. People feel that Helena is "still good" because they aren't fighting her correctly. A lot of players aren't punishing her unsafe moves at all. She doesn't have safe ways going into her stances. She is one of the most unsafe characters in the game now for no reason. She lacks good unholdable stuns. One of her sitdown stuns, (6pp) is the second punch in the middle of a string. I also find her sitdown stuns to be easily Slow Escaped before any good followups can connect. This is a character that people feel is strong early on, but she will only get very weak later on down the road once people learn to properly fight her.
Now I'm not a big fan of nerfing the other characters. (Especially this early on in the game's life) Just straight up making the "good" characters worse can hurt the game in the long run. Instead, make the weaker characters better. Give them buffs to also make them good. In this post I decided to list a couple of changes that Helena should get in a future balance patch of DOA5:
-----------------------------------
PPK
This move should be +1 on block.
6P
Helena lacks any real good DOA5 unholdable stuns. What I suggest is give her back her Limbo Stun on Counter Hit for 6P, like how it was in DOA2. Keep people honest. This would be a really great addition for Helena and make her one step closer to feeling like a DOA5 character.
BT 4ppp
When this move is used in a juggle state, it should hard knockdown. (like Tina's 6f+k) That way, you can force tech the opponent with BKO 6p or BKO Sweep.
F+K
I feel you should be able to go into either BKO Stance or Back Turn Stance from this move. Do F+K and hold the DOWN button to go into BKO, and to go into BT, hold the BACK button after inputting F+K. Going into either stance after F+K should leave you at least +3 on block. Helena needs more safe and advantageous ways to go into her stances. This would be fair too because the move isn't really that fast and it's a high.
BKO K
This move, on CH and in middle of stun, should give her that unholdable stun where you lean backwards and fall to the ground. It's the same stun that Gen Fu's 4p+k on CH and in stun gives. Again, she needs more of these type of stuns to truly fit the DOA5 mold.
Handslaps
236p+k leaves her at neutral on block right now. I think she should be at +1 on block. She has strings that end with the handslaps that leave her at -4 on block. (BT 4ppp, 4p2p, 33p4p) They should be either neutral or -1 on block.
8K
Not even gonna say 8k should be real safe or advantage on block, but I don't think it should be -8 on block. I think -5 is pretty respectable. That way it can still be punished by only Grappler Characters.
66P
Why was this move made unsafe? Not even that it's unsafe, but it's REALLY unsafe. This move and any string that ends with this open palm should be -2 or -3 on block. This was her "Get in" move. I think it should also sitdown stun as well. It wouldn't be cheap because I'm pretty sure you won't get anything guaranteed on hit by the time you recover.
CONCLUSION:
Helena needs more safe ways to go into her stances and just overall more safe moves in general. She needs these unholdable DOA5 stuns that everyone else has. The BKO duck nerf makes sense to me. She needs to be an overall better character because, like I said earlier, she is gonna get much worse as the game matures. This Helena that we were delivered right now, is just a bad version of DOA4 Helena. She needs buffs.
There was once a time where I felt that Helena was the perfect fighting game character. She embodied all of the tools to make her a serious and respectable character in DOA4. In DOA5, all that changed... The fighting system has changed in DOA5 to where we now have unholdable stuns, pretty good frame advantage on block, etc. As the game changed, Helena did not. DOA5 Helena plays a lot like DOA4 Helena. The best way I can describe her now is if DOA4 ever came out with a patch and they nerfed her by making her unsafe and taking away her force techs, this would be that character. The problem is that this isn't DOA4 and this is a new system. She plays EXACTLY like a DOA4 character. She has to be the only character in DOA5 that got worse since DOA4 while every other character got either a little better or a lot better.
I wanted my next blog post to be a breakdown of Helena's best moves, but I felt that this could not wait. People feel that Helena is "still good" because they aren't fighting her correctly. A lot of players aren't punishing her unsafe moves at all. She doesn't have safe ways going into her stances. She is one of the most unsafe characters in the game now for no reason. She lacks good unholdable stuns. One of her sitdown stuns, (6pp) is the second punch in the middle of a string. I also find her sitdown stuns to be easily Slow Escaped before any good followups can connect. This is a character that people feel is strong early on, but she will only get very weak later on down the road once people learn to properly fight her.
Now I'm not a big fan of nerfing the other characters. (Especially this early on in the game's life) Just straight up making the "good" characters worse can hurt the game in the long run. Instead, make the weaker characters better. Give them buffs to also make them good. In this post I decided to list a couple of changes that Helena should get in a future balance patch of DOA5:
-----------------------------------
PPK
This move should be +1 on block.
6P
Helena lacks any real good DOA5 unholdable stuns. What I suggest is give her back her Limbo Stun on Counter Hit for 6P, like how it was in DOA2. Keep people honest. This would be a really great addition for Helena and make her one step closer to feeling like a DOA5 character.
BT 4ppp
When this move is used in a juggle state, it should hard knockdown. (like Tina's 6f+k) That way, you can force tech the opponent with BKO 6p or BKO Sweep.
F+K
I feel you should be able to go into either BKO Stance or Back Turn Stance from this move. Do F+K and hold the DOWN button to go into BKO, and to go into BT, hold the BACK button after inputting F+K. Going into either stance after F+K should leave you at least +3 on block. Helena needs more safe and advantageous ways to go into her stances. This would be fair too because the move isn't really that fast and it's a high.
BKO K
This move, on CH and in middle of stun, should give her that unholdable stun where you lean backwards and fall to the ground. It's the same stun that Gen Fu's 4p+k on CH and in stun gives. Again, she needs more of these type of stuns to truly fit the DOA5 mold.
Handslaps
236p+k leaves her at neutral on block right now. I think she should be at +1 on block. She has strings that end with the handslaps that leave her at -4 on block. (BT 4ppp, 4p2p, 33p4p) They should be either neutral or -1 on block.
8K
Not even gonna say 8k should be real safe or advantage on block, but I don't think it should be -8 on block. I think -5 is pretty respectable. That way it can still be punished by only Grappler Characters.
66P
Why was this move made unsafe? Not even that it's unsafe, but it's REALLY unsafe. This move and any string that ends with this open palm should be -2 or -3 on block. This was her "Get in" move. I think it should also sitdown stun as well. It wouldn't be cheap because I'm pretty sure you won't get anything guaranteed on hit by the time you recover.
CONCLUSION:
Helena needs more safe ways to go into her stances and just overall more safe moves in general. She needs these unholdable DOA5 stuns that everyone else has. The BKO duck nerf makes sense to me. She needs to be an overall better character because, like I said earlier, she is gonna get much worse as the game matures. This Helena that we were delivered right now, is just a bad version of DOA4 Helena. She needs buffs.
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